WWCW org's God, the Bible and Science purpots to be a discussion for the scientific evidence for the existence of Jehovah. I read the moderator's evidences and tried to post a rebuttal but my two posts never surfaced. I do not believe that this group can truly be an honest "discussion of the scientific evidences of Jehovah" if it does not allow a contrary opinion. I've posted his evidences here with my rebuttals in parentheses.
From: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wwcw_org_god_bible_science
Reasons to Believe the Bible
Six reasons why the Bible should be believed and what that means to you.
1. No Superheroes
The main characters of the Bible are not the product of myth. They are honestly portrayed with all their human frailties.
(Obviously the writer has never read a myth story in his life! Virtually all mythic heroes are TRAGIC heroes with frailties and problems. Read the stories of Perseus, Hercules, King Midas, Achilles, Osiris, Mithra etc. Often the stories of heroes and gods would include a moral showing the hero or god's fall due to his vice.)
2. Miraculous Preservation
The Bible has gone without change since its original manuscripts
(Fanaticism is NOT proof. If the Bible is preserved miraculously by God then why was it whittled down to 66 books by a very close priestly vote in Rome? We find that the African church is still using at least one Book that the Church Fathers kicked out and that some of the GOD created manuscripts refer to others that were deemed apocryphal and kicked out.)
3. Historical Accuracy
Some historians and archaeologists have long disputed the historical accuracy of various personal and place names mentioned in the Bible. But one by one, archeologists have unearthed proof that these names belonged to people and places that actually existed.
(This is not true. Here's the truth: OF COURSE stuff was probably where the ancient Israelis thought they were - big deal. There are some mistakes though:
In Genesis 21 the Philistines are said to live in Canaan at the time of Abraham even though they did not live there until the time of the Judges - much later.
There is no Egyptian record of the Israelis being held as slaves neither do the Egyptians record seven plagues, the loss of an entire generation of 1st born or the drowning of a Pharaoh in the Red Sea.
The Isrealite population goes from 70 (or 75) to several million in a few hundred years. Exodus 1:5,7; 12:37; 38:26.
In Joshua 8 the Israelites destroy Ai and make it a desolate heap. But archaeology has revealed that Ai was an abandoned city by the time of the Israelites and that this story is nothing more than a myth invented to explain the ruins of an ancient city that the Israelites encountered
1st Samuel 2:8 "The pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them" These verses about the earth being on pillars and on a strong foundation that does not move is repeated over and over and over throughout the Bible.
According to 1Chronicles David's army had 1,100,000 men from Israel and 470,000 men from Judah, Of course, this numbers is ridiculously high for a battle between two tribal armies in 1000 BCE.
King David collects ten thousand drams (or darics) for the construction of the temple in Jerusalem. This is especially interesting since darics were coins named after King Darius I who lived some five hundred years after David.
Daniel 1:1 The third year of the reign of Jehoiakim would be 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar invaded Jerusalem for the first time (without actually destroying it). By that time Jehohiakim was dead and his son, Jehoiachin, was ruling
Daniel 5:2, 11, 18, 22. Apparently, the author of Daniel knew of only two Babylonian kings during the period of the exile: Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar, who he wrongly thought was the son of Nebuchadnezzar. But Nebuchadnezzar died in 562 BCE and was succeeded by his son, Awil-Marduk (referred to in the bible as "Evilmerodach" [see 2 Kg.25:27 and Jer.52:31]). In 560 BCE, Amel-Marduk was assassinated by his brother-in-law, Nergal-shar-usur. The next and last king of Babylon was Nabonidus who reigned from 556 to 539, when Babylon was conquered by Cyrus. It was Nabonidus, and not Belshazzar, who was the last of the Babylonian kings. Belshazzar was a the son and viceroy of Nabonidus. But he was not a king, and was not the son (or any other relation) of Nebochadnezzar
Daniel 5:31. Darius the Median is a fictitious character whom the author perhaps confused with Darius I of Persia, who came to the throne in 521 BCE, 17 years after the fall of Babylon. The author of Daniel incorrectly makes him the successor of Belshazzar instead of Cyrus.)
4. Scientific Accuracy
If history has shown us anything, it has shown us that when the Bible and science conflict, science is eventually found to be incorrect.
(This is absolutely ridiculous! Let's look at just SOME PLACES where science and the Bible disagree:
The world is created a few thousand years ago.
The world is created before the stars.
The world is placed on a foundation and does not move.
There is water above the sky (where rain comes from).
All animals living concurrently.
There is a Garden of Eden on earth guarded by Cherubim.
There is no Ice Age or Dinosaur Age.
Humans start as farmer/shepherds.
There is a world-wide flood that reaches the top of mountains.
Sheep are domesticated long before people speak different languages.
The Bible makes reference to whole civilizations of Giants. )
For example, a popular theory once held by many scientists was called the Steady State theory. This theory basically said that the universe has always existed. The Bible said differently, claiming the universe had a beginning.
(5,000 years ago and, oh... it's just water up there anyway.)
...new species appeared out of nowhere in the distant past, which sounds something like the creation as mentioned in the Bible.
(The Bible also says they all existed at the same time, there was no Dinosaur age and the Ice Age never happened.)
5. Prophetic Accuracy
(Prophecy quickly disproves the Bible. Many prophets were wrong.. as one example Ezekial 29:10-12 prophesied a victory by Nebuchadnezzar against the Egyptians. In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage. Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed. )
(Supposed prophecies about Jesus are always wrong. What Christians see are tiny slivers of scriptures (not necessarily prophecies) ripped out of everywhere (especially Psalms which has NOTHING to do with prophecy) and then pasted together to create the life of Christ post-mortem. I spent weeks researching these sliver prophecies and you'll find them all right here: Slivers of a Prophecy: The Messianic Chart Revealed! The fact is - there is no coherent scripture that includes more than 1 1/2 of the following important attributes of Jesus: 1) Son of God 2) Born of a virgin 3) Miracle worker 4) Great teacher and philosopher. 5) A prophet. 6) Loved by the underclass and dismissed as Messiah by the learned. 7) Accused of blasphemy and then handed over to Gentiles. 8) Gentiles torture man to death. 9) Propitiatory sacrifice for sin. 10) Raised 3 days later from the dead to sit at the right hand of Jehovah. Seriously, 1 1/2 in a full scripture is worthless - ANYONE can fulfill that! REAL messianic prophecies DO show a coherent view of a REAL Messiah as coming in glory, judging the Gentiles, building the Temple, bringing all of Israel back to Israel and then ruling on a real throne that stretches from sea to sea. Understand that the literate Jews who understood the Bible quickly dismissed this cult leader - his following came from the ignorant, illiterate, lower classes where all cult leaders get their disciples.)
In fact, the exact day the savior of the world came to earth and was hailed as the savior (also called the "Messiah") was predicted by the Bible hundreds of years before he was even born.
(Terribly and deliberately mistranslated:
“25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.”
There is indisputably an ‘etnacta’ (Hebrew version of a Semi-Colon) separating 7 weeks and 62 weeks changing the meaning to:
“25 Know, therefore, and discern that seven weeks [of years] will elapse between the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until an anointed prince comes. It will remain built for sixty-two weeks [of years], with open spaces and moats; but these will be troubled times.”
This completely changes the ‘time of birth’. Interestingly even the 1611 KJV translates the semicolon correctly. It was changed in the 19th century to help aid the ‘Jesus as Messiah’ myth.)
6. Changed Lives
The words of the Bible have the power to change lives.
(So does Scientology, Krishna worship and Islam - just ask the adherents.)
Early eyewitness to the events of the Bible and to the life of the savior of the world, let themselves be tortured to death without renouncing what they saw and believed.
(People are persecuted well after the death of Christ and most of the victims were later converts to the religion. It's a simple fact that cultists die for their cult: Branch Davidian, Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones - in fact there is a recent story of a Phillipino Messiah who was said to have miraculous powers and for whom his disciples gladly gave their lives. Does that mean he's real?)
Other Evidences
The writer has a seperate document arguing from design.
Reasons to Believe God Exists
1. The universe had a beginning
2. The universe could not have just appeared on its own
3. The universe is designed for life
4. Life could not have formed on its own
5. The fossil record evidence supports rapid appearance
The argument of design simply takes us nowhere. It's not like Genesis which states that the Earth was created a few thousand years ago before the stars and placed on a solid foundation provides a better answer to origins. Whether or not you believe that life seems too complex to appear at random; the Genesis account is not a good second option - it is no less mythological and no less provable fiction than the creation myths of the rest of the world.