Presuppositional Apologetics

This BIZARRE anti-thinking states that an atheist cannot believe in Jehovah because he has presupposed that Jehovah doesn't exist.

Here's an example on the site:

Paul: Your presuppositions will not allow you to examine, without bias, the evidence that I present to you for God's existence.
Allen: That is because there is no evidence for God's existence.
Paul: See? There you go. You just confirmed what I was stating.
Allen: How so?
Paul: Your presupposition is that there is no God, therefore, no matter what I might present to you to show His existence, you must interpret it in a manner consistent with your presupposition; namely, that there is no God. If I were to have a video tape of God coming down from heaven, you'd say it was a special effect. If I had a thousand eye-witnesses saying they saw Him, you'd say it was mass-hysteria. If I had Old Testament prophecies fulfilled in the New Testament, you'd say they were forged, dated in correctly, or not real prophecies. So, I cannot prove anything to you since your presupposition won't allow it. It is limited.

Here are some problems with this apologetic:

1) What bothers me most is that the author of this apologetic must not understand basic reasoning skills. We MUST begin with the presupposition that something (cold fusion, astrology, angel healing, Jehovah) does not exist and then examine the evidence produced by people who claim the validity of the theory. Imagine that a group of scientists state that they have discovered "Cold Fusion". A board of engineers declares that they are skeptical but willing to listen to evidence. The scientists then recoil in horror, "Well since you've presupposed that 'Cold Fusion' cannot work, we can't convince you so we'll just go home." Whiny. Stupid. Weak.

Here is a great site detailing scientific method and how to test a theory's validity. Scientific Method

2) It's soooooo whiny! Instead of bringing up facts and evidence to prove your side of the argument - you'll just whine that the skeptic will never believe you so you might as well not bother. Maybe the reason the skeptic will NOT believe you is because the evidence is weak, pathetic and in fact points in the other direction. Produce your evidence and take your lumps! If your evidence is good then it will survive debate, if it is not (and it isn't) it does not DESERVE to survive!

3) If there WAS a real Jehovah than you KNOW we would have REAL evidence of its existence and not just whine that even if we did, skeptics wouldn't believe. What evidence?

• A) A Bible providing us with a creation history that parallels what we are discovering through scientific research - not just a pile of mythologies interchangeable with every other mythology on the planet. Instead of proving the document to be feeble, simplistic origin myths, science would be discovering that the sacred tablets were brilliant beyond our imaginations.
  
• B) A Bible with a higher knowledge of the planet and universe than would be guessed at by bronze age tribesmen. We might find a map of the solar system drawn by a prophet or some mention of the age of dinosaurs or Neanderthals or viruses. There is no verse in the Bible that couldn't have been written by a bronze age shepherd.
  
• C) A Bible with a higher knowledge of law, government, science or medicine. The Jewish Bible trails most civilizations in these areas when (if the real GOD was involved) it should've been the first. Law is primitive and savage. Governments are brutal theocracies. Medicine is ritualized magic with doctors being considered a secular evil and science is greeted with the edge of the sword. We get our science, government and medicine from Greece, Egypt and other civilizations. Israel, despite revelation from a real god, is an intolerant, savage, pathetic, third rate culture that ends up getting stomped on by better civilizations. There is nothing good in US society that can be traced back to Israel!
  
• D) Any sacred document with some form of brilliant, divine infomation that we are still coming to grips with. Imagine documents with really detailed information on atoms or maybe a prophet is taken to the sun and we find an amazingly detailed document on how big the sun is along with information on flares, the corona and how the planets orbit it in elipses creating seasons. You shake your head but a real god with a real prophet could EASILY impart this information to his people.
  
• E) How about real prophecies that really happen! We would find clear prophecies of Hitler, Palestinian suicide bombers, the re-establishment of Israel with the help of Western Gentiles, Mohammed, friendship with Egypt etc. The prophecies in the Old Testament are either written after the fact, simple Jeanne Dixon style obvious predictions or just wrong: As one example Ezekial 29:10-12 prophesied a victory by Nebuchadnezzar against the Egyptians. In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage. Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed. Christians like to pretend like there are prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament but are incapable of producing a simple, coherent prophecy that sounds ANYTHING like the life of Jesus. Instead, Christians harvest hundreds of slivers of scriptures from all over the Bible and then cut and paste them together into what looks like Jesus' life. Any inspection will show that the full scripture refered to by the sliver cannot and certainly DOES NOT refer to Jesus but most Christians don't bother to check. For example the prophecy in Micah 5 of the Messiah coming from Bethlehem also says that he would deliver Israel from the Assyrians - a country which ceased to exist 500 years before Christ's birth. Here's a list I made debunking the ridiculous Jesus prophecies: Slivers of a Prophecy
  
• F) It would help if we found a Bible detailing an intelligent, far-thinking god with plans beyond our feeble imaginations. Instead the Jewish Bible describes a confused, childish monster of unimaginable evil who enjoys the smell of burning flesh and regrets its frequent massacres. The creature murders 70,000 innocent people because a king takes a census. It has to be talked out of slaughtering all of Israel over and over again by Moses. It just randomly sneaks up on and tries to kill Moses when his wife circumsizes their child - flinging the skin at the monster and causing it to retreat. It slaughters Aaron's children because it didn't like the offering. It leads a nation of nomads in vicious slaughters and invasions - taking the properties of other cultures while enslaving or massacring the women and children. One statistic has Israel murdering over two million canaanite natives in the name of this "God of Love".
  
• G) Show me a god with real miracles! Show me resurrections, the blind being cured, people growing back lungs, the deaf being made to hear etc. Jesus said that Christians will be able to do this but there is NO proven case of this actually happening. How hard would it be to find someone who has been proven blind and then show him after a prayer session as having 20/20 vision? The "miracles" of Christianity are no more real than the miracles of psychics, reflexologists and witch doctors of all stripes - placebo effects, lies and exaggerations.
  
• H) Show me a god with real power who uses it to save his followers! Show me the great miracles that delivered the screaming, praying masses of Jews from the Nazi death chambers. Show me the miracles that stopped Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot etc from killing millions - many devout Christians! Show me the miracle that stopped the jets from flying into the twin towers. Show me the miracle that saved the believers from the flood in Phuket Thailand. Which is more likely: 1) Jehovah isn't powerful enough to help. 2) Jehovah doesn't care. 3) Jehovah doesn't exist. I believe the third option is by far the most rational.
  

IF there was a Jehovah..
As you can see... IF there WAS a Jehovah - there would be PLENTY of irrefutable evidence that would shut the skeptic up! The feeble, pathetic apologetics Christians use can be voiced by every fraud and hoax on the planet. Before you use an apologetic - ask yourself if a Moonie could use the same one - most of the time the answer is "Yes." The obvious conclusion is that Christianity is no more real than Moonism. Moonism is a fraud, so is Christianity.

Skeptics WON'T believe, no matter what!
First off, this is absolutely retarded yet what else can you say when skeptics are tearing through your arguments like a chainsaw through waxpaper. "Well maybe these arguments DO suck but you wouldn't believe even if I had GOOD arguments!" BALONEY! No Christian believes in Thor but if Thor appeared in Time Square swinging Mjolnir and saying he's been asleep for awhile - well you'd give it some thought, wouldn't you? Besides, most skeptics would be HAPPY if you could prove that some benevolent, loving god is out there! Why WOULDN'T I want eternal life, magical healing and a superpowered, ghost parent looking out for me? Atheism is the bitter, honest truth - it flys in the face of wishful thinking and the need for a super-parent. Religion gives you hope and love and a moral compass and a family unit and eternal life and a loving, ghost parent - all you have to do is believe. All atheism can give you is... the truth!