A pile of nearly identical feel-good, no-details, reassurance prophecies about the re-establishment of Israel.
BAKKE COMMENTS:
Amos prophesied almost 200 years prior to the Babylonian Exile.
Because of this, history tells us that his statement about the people
not again being rooted out from their land can't be anything but
inaccurate.
I was debunking these prophecies one at a time but as I was writing the third rebuttal I realized that all these prophecies are nearly identical! These so-called prophecies are nothing more than vague, foggy generalities with fantasy imagery; no details, no time-table and no substance. They are all nothing more than prophets trying to reassure a devestated Israel that one day they'll get their nation back. I use the analogy of wandering around post Katrina New Orleans "predicting" that it will be rebuilt one day. "And the LORD Frank, will bring dryness to the city and the armadillo will rejoice with the gator for they will know that Frank has brought again the birth of the Great City." Let's say someone reads the "prophecy" in a thousand years - I'll either be right or it's a "future" prophecy.
Verdict: "Duh Prophecies", vague reassurances with no time-table and no details.
100 Prophecies splits up Ezekiel 37 into three seperate prophecies:
100 Prophecies plucks out three prophecies from one chapter of Ezekiel, claiming that establishing Israel, returning to Israel and uniting Israel are different. Can anyone come up with a scenario bizarre enough where you can return to Israel without establishing it or unite Israel without returning to it or establishing Israel without returning to it?
Besides which let's read the end of the prophecy - something Christians would really rather you didn't.
Ezekiel 37:24 "My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd; and they will walk in My ordinances and keep My statutes and observe them. 25 "They will live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived; and they will live on it, they, and their sons and their sons' sons, forever; and David My servant will be their prince forever. 26 "I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. 27 "My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 28 "And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.'""
Ezekiel delivers this chapter as a complete prophecy. Israel is re-united at which point David rules over them and GOD takes up residence in Jerusalem. Christians like to take prophecies apart and use the part(s) that work while discarding the part(s) that don't. This is irrational and inconsistent - either the entire prophecy is fulfilled or else it is a failed or future prophecy. This is certainly failed or future.
Verdict: "Duh Prophecies", vague reassurances with no time-table and no details packaged with failed or future prophecies.
Ezekiel 4: 3 "Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel. 4 "As for you, lie down on your left side and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; you shall bear their iniquity for the number of days that you lie on it. 5 "For I have assigned you a number of days corresponding to the years of their iniquity, three hundred and ninety days; thus you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6 "When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, {but} on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year
Okay, 430 years. Ezekiel lived around 598 BC so how the HELL can you possibly get 1948 out of there? The ridiculous, laughable mathematics used by Christians to accomplish this would make Von Dannikin chuckle. They multiply by seven for no good reason and then then use a 360 day calendar because of some mythological "prophetic calendar". (There is no such thing as a 360 day prophetic calendar - check this: The Hebrew Calendar.) Okay, let's pretend we're morons and actually accept these gymnastics - we take this total of 2,484 and subtract the beginning of the Babylonian captivity of 597 BC giving us: 1886. Wow, even this massively complex apologetic fails miserably! Of course we have to accept a different beginning... well after Ezekiel's death and well... I'm done with this!
Wouldn't a "real" prophecy have been so much more impressive? "Then 2,545 years after the first year of the Babylonian captivity wilt Jacob purchase his nation with the help of a king of the West..." Be honest, would any Christian accept these kind of prophetic contortions from another religion? "And then when Krishna said nine years we multiply this by the number of Vishnu's appearances subtracting 7 for the holy day of Ragnak and then changing the calendar to 200 days a year." Any Christian hearing this would laugh at the Hinduist apologist so expect nothing less from a skeptic regarding this "prophetic fulfillment".
Verdict: "Math Monstrosity" - an insane, towering, mathematical monstrosity that collapses under the sheer weight of nonsensical rationalizations.
Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O nations, And declare in the coastlands afar off, And say, "He who scattered Israel will gathe him And keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock."
It just goes beyond chutzpah to say that Jehovah was protecting his chosen people just a few years after a maniac managed to kill six million of them! The Jews successfully protected the Jews not some invisible, do-nothing myth! Could this author maybe explain the successful attacks of suicide bombers and the continued harrassment of Israel by Muslim extremists?
Verdict: "Grand DUH!" nothing miraculous saved the Jews. American technology and Jewish perseverance saved the Jews.
Leviticus 26:7 'But you will chase your enemies and they will fall before you by the sword; 8 five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall before you by the sword.
Oh, that's a nice cherry-picked verse. Let's begin with the fact that Israeli training and western technology was what saved Israel - not miracles. (I find it ironic that the scientists who invented the complex fighter jets used by Israel would've been burned at the stake under a Jehovah theocracy.) In at least one case the reason Israel beat a larger force was because they attacked first, flying under the radar to blow up fighter planes before they could take off. This isn't a miracle - it's just good tactics!
Now let's look at the surrounding verses and see if the whole prophecy has come to pass or if this is yet another deceptive "prophecy fragment"... gee, guess what? One verse back:
Leviticus 26:6 'I shall also grant peace in the land, so that you may lie down with no one making {you} tremble. I shall also eliminate harmful beasts from the land, and no sword will pass through your land.
Really? Is there someone out there who can somehow keep a straight face while telling me that this part of the prophecy is fulfilled? Until this comes to pass - verses seven and eight are irrelevant. Let's also look three verses down:
Leviticus 26:11 'Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.
Jehovah hasn't moved into Israel recently and there is nothing to indicate that this small country doesn't need the massive aid that they're currently receiving. Honestly, would the LORD GOD's host country actually need financial and military aid from sniveling gentiles? Would Jehovah's host country suffer suicide bombings and assassinations? Wouldn't a real Jehovah who recently moved into Israel like... oh... do something about Islamic fundamentalism?
Verdict: Duh Prophecy - no details, just a prediction of Isreali success surrounded by unfulfilled prophecies.
Deuteronomy 30:3 then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you. 4 "If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 "The LORD your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers
Another feel-good, no-details, reassuring, Israel-will-be-re-established prophecy? Yeah, but I thought I'd give this one its own slot because of the way it gets edited by Christians. Christians end the prophecy just before verse 6:
6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.
Now you know why Christians end the prophecy at verse five, huh? First off, Israel hosts the largest percentage of atheists of any country; secondly - shouldn't the "Lord your God" be Jesus? However you slice it, this verse indicates an Israeli utopia where the Jews would once again be united with Jehovah. This obviously hasn't happened and therefore the entire prophecy is either failed or future.
Verdict: Duh Prophecy - just some gushing reassurances with no details, time-table or new boundaries surrounded by unfulfilled prophecies.
Jeremiah 32:44 'Men will buy fields for money, sign and seal deeds, and call in witnesses in the land of Benjamin, in the environs of Jerusalem, in the cities of Judah, in the cities of the hill country, in the cities of the lowland and in the cities of the Negev; for I will restore their fortunes,' declares the LORD."
Christians would like you to believe that this was the purchase of Israel. Not quite. Let's read back a couple verses.
Jeremiah 32:42 For thus says the LORD, 'Just as I brought all this great disaster on this people, so I am going to bring on them all the good that I am promising them. 43 Fields will be bought in this land of which you say, "It is a desolation, without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans."
Basically this feel-good, reassurance prophecy is saying "Even though this countryside has been devestated by the Chaldeans (Babylonians), God will again restore the countryside so that people will want to buy it again." Notice that the positive part of the verse says "men will buy fields for money..." not "My people will buy the land of Jacob from the Gentiles." Jeremiah is reassuring the Isrealis at the time that someday their land will be worth something again and people will return to the activity of buying land and sealing deeds in Israel..
Verdict: Duh Prophecy - just some reassurances with no details, time-table or new boundaries.
Deuteronomy 28:65 "Among those nations you shall find no rest, and there will be no resting place for the sole of your foot; but there the LORD will give you a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and despair of soul. 66 "So your life shall hang in doubt before you; and you will be in dread night and day, and shall have no assurance of your life. 67 "In the morning you shall say, 'Would that it were evening!' And at evening you shall say, 'Would that it were morning!' because of the dread of your heart which you dread, and for the sight of your eyes which you will see.
First off, we don't see any place in this scripture where many different nations are persecuting the Jews. What we do see is a "prophecy" (actually a threat) that the Jews will never be comfortable in any land but their own. If a Christian wants to read into this "prophecy" that "Jews will find no rest in any other land" than the prophecy is patently false since there are more Jews in New York than Israel and they seem to be doing just fine.
BAKKE Comments:
Let's also consider the historical situation (at least, according to
the story) at the time that Deuteronomy was written. It was a time
when the Middle East consisted of a great many small and warring
nations. The Hebrews themselves had warred against and wiped out
several of these nations in the process of taking the "promised land".
This sort of thing rarely went unremembered or unavenged. Combine
this with the fact that the Hebrews worshipped a different deity from
the ones favored by neighboring nations and it would seem to be a
major league "DUH" to "prophesy" that the Hebrews would have ongoing
problems with other nations. Much the same situation exists today in
the same part of the world.
Now let's look one verse before:
Deuteronomy 28:64 Moreover, the LORD will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth; and there you shall serve other gods, wood and stone, which you or your fathers have not known.
How about one verse after the quoted prophecy?
Deuteronomy 28:68 "The LORD will bring you back to Egypt in ships, by the way about which I spoke to you, 'You will never see it again!' And there you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but there will be no buyer."
This abso-frikkin-lutely did not happen! Why do Christians think that it's okay to quote only those parts of the prophecy that work (because they're generic enough) and then ignore all the details if they don't match reality?
Bakke Comments:
Let's also consider the historical situation (at least, according to the story) at the time that Deuteronomy was written. It was a time when the Middle East consisted of a great many small and warring nations. The Hebrews themselves had warred against and wiped out several of these nations in the process of taking the "promised land". This sort of thing rarely went unremembered or unavenged. Combine this with the fact that the Hebrews worshipped a different deity from the ones favored by neighboring nations and it would seem to be a major league "DUH" to "prophesy" that the Hebrews would have ongoing problems with other nations. Much the same situation exists today in the same part of the world.
Verdict: Duh Prophecy - just generic threats with no details or time-table surrounded by unfulfilled prophecies.
Isaiah 66:22 "For just as the new heavens and the new earth Which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD, "So your offspring and your name will endure.
Isn't this the direct opposite of the last prophecy? Which is it for God's sake? Are the Jews divinely protected or divinely persecuted? You can't have both... well I guess you can which means that no matter what happens, you have a fulfilled prophecy! How well protected were the Hebrews when Nazi Germany was killing them by the millions? If someone protecting me allowed this to happen, I would be making out his pink slip!
Anyway, this is a text book "DUH Prophecy"! Of course the Hebrews will endure and the prophecy couldn't be more generic. Now let's look at those pesky surrounding scriptures.
2 verses before
Isaiah 66:20 "Then they (various Gentile nations) shall bring all your brethren from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD. 21 "I will also take some of them for priests {and} for Levites," says the LORD.
Funny, I don't remember that happening. Hmmmm... maybe if we read the next two verses after the "Duh Prophecy"...
Isaiah 66:23 "And it shall be from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD. 24 "Then they will go forth and look On the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm will not die And their fire will not be quenched; And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."
So... all humanity is worshiping Jehovah? I guess Muslims, Hindis, Buddhists, Taoists, Pagans don't really count. According to 24; all these evil, non-Jehovah worshipers should be laid out as permanent, worm-infested corpses in a kind of bizarre serial-killer display for the Love god, Jehovah. (Bizarre, SICK and thankfully unfulfilled!)
Verdict: Yet another "Duh Prophecy". Generic reassurances with no details nested inside a bunch of unfulfilled prophecies.
Hosea 3:4 For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or {sacred} pillar and without ephod or household idols. 5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.
Hosea's prophecies were prompted by the Jewish civil war between the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom - not the re-establishment of Israel some 2700 years later! Hosea is referring to the Assyrian invasion of the Northern Kingdom during which there is no king, the Assyrians did not allow the Israelis to carry their idols with them or make new ones.
Verdict: Stolen Prophecy. Hosea didn't care about 1948 Israel, he was concerned with the Israeli civil war which was followed by an Assyrian invasion all of which occured in the 8th century BC.
Micah 7:8 Do not rejoice over me, O my enemy. Though I fall I will rise; Though I dwell in darkness, the LORD is a light for me. 9 I will bear the indignation of the LORD Because I have sinned against Him, Until He pleads my case and executes justice for me. He will bring me out to the light, {And} I will see His righteousness. 10 Then my enemy will see, And shame will cover her who said to me, "Where is the LORD your God?" My eyes will look on her; At that time she will be trampled down Like mire of the streets. 11 {It will be} a day for building your walls. On that day will your boundary be extended.
More incredibly vague reassurances. No details, specifics or time-table. Now let's read the next two verses.
Micah 7:12 It {will be} a day when they will come to you From Assyria and the cities of Egypt, From Egypt even to the Euphrates, Even from sea to sea and mountain to mountain. 13 And the earth will become desolate because of her inhabitants, On account of the fruit of their deeds.
Right off - Assyria no longer exists and just as a nitpicky point - I don't remember the earth becoming desolate recently.
Verdict: "Duh Prophecy" - just some gushing reassurances packaged with a failed or future prophecy.